Successful Business Ventures
Intro: Welcome to Your Practice Mentors, a weekly, on-demand radio show designed to mentor the next generation of mental health care providers, and help them jump start their careers. Listen to Kathleen Mills as she interviews leading experts and tackles the important topics. You’ll learn how to be proactive at protecting what you’ve worked for. She’ll equip you with right tools and framework to grow your business, and teach you how to defend yourself in today’s mental health care environment. Now, let’s join Kathleen.
The following recording was originally made for Kathleen’s on-demand radio show It’s Just Coffee, and it’s being made available to you and her Practice Matrix audience.
Kathleen Mills: Phillip, how are you?
Phillip Crum: I’m darn good. Did you put the coffee on today?
KM: I did.
PC: It’s time for another edition of It’s Just Coffee.
KM: It is just coffee.
PC: It happens to be your weekly foray into the minds and methods of the mental health professionals, and anybody else who happens to wander in the room.
PC: Like Dan Franks sitting right over there.
Dan Franks: Yeah, that’s what we have today – a wanderer.
KM: The professional wrestler is back!
PC: That’s right. That’s right.
KM: I’m so excited!
PC: It’s Thursday morning.
KM: It is Thursday morning.
PC: And the weather has turned a lovely shade of cold. I like that.
KM: It’s nice. It’s nice to be cold in Dallas.
PC: It’s always exciting to have Mr. Franks in the building.
KM: It is.
PC: Yes, for such a young one he has so much experience and all these ideas that I just want to slap him sometimes.
DF: Well, let’s just not do that. Let’s take another course of action.
PC: Oh, my goodness. So what do you know? Anything good?
DF: No, you know, just wandering around in this cold shade of weather.
PC: I told them to lock the front door and look what happens.
DF: I snuck in.
PC: Yes, I know.
DF: Thanks for having me.
PC: I caught that. I said it on purpose, okay? So Podcast Summit ’14 has come and gone – very successful.
DF: Podcast Movement.
PC: That’s what I said: Podcast Movement ’14.
KM: He needs some more coffee, don’t you think?
PC: Or less. Or decaf. Or whatever. So anyway, it was very successful and ’15 is on the board. Still having it over in Cowtown?
DF: Having it in Cowtown this time.
PC: Okay, that’s excellent.
KM: I’m signed up already. Are you?
PC: Not yet. Not yet.
KM: You didn’t get the early bird price then.
PC: Well, you know. I know people.
DF: That’s true. He does.
PC: It’s never worked before, but it sounds good until I actually have to whip out the credit card, so I’m running with that. Now, as if that wasn’t enough, Podcast Movement ’14 and ’15 and a full time job and probably three or four girlfriends he won’t talk about–
DF: I don’t know about that.
PC: He’s got the business podcast summit thing coming up.
KM: Yes, you do.
PC: Another brand new venture.
PC: Yet another wonderful program from the sterling mind of Dan Franks. So, Dan, why don’t you tell us a little bit about that and the origins of the idea – where did it come from, what are you doing, how much is it going to cost, and let’s hear it.
DF: Sure. Alright, so I’ll turn on my promotional mind here.
PC: There you go.
DF: This early in the morning, I’ve got my coffee just like you all do. So the Business Podcaster Summit, what it is is it’s an online conference. So last time I was here, I talked about Podcast Movement which was an in-person conference for podcasters and potential podcasters. The business podcaster summit is an online version of this conference where for three straight weeks, three days a week, there’s going to be online presentations and interactive sessions just like you would find at an in-person conference, only it’s just in a virtual setting. And there will still be experts from the podcasting industry, some big names, some up-and-comers. And this one is geared specifically towards business owners, whether it’s people that are looking to use podcasting to further their business, build their personal brand as a business, maybe use their podcast itself as a business. Any of those things – if there’s a business, some sort of business mind behind your podcast, the business podcaster summit is for you. So we have 12 sessions involved this year. It’s $97 right now, but probably at the time of this going live it will be $197. Maybe send me an email and we can give a special for this podcast. But yeah, so it really is– it’s going to be a cool setting. One of the reasons we’re doing an online version this time instead of the live version here in January is because one of the biggest hold-ups that a lot of people had with Podcast Movement was, well sure the conference is pretty reasonable, but the travel to get there and the hotel rooms and all these things – that’s going to cost even more than the conference itself so money was the big issue. Travel was a big issue.
PC: Not for the 650 that showed up.
DF: That’s true.
KM: That’s true.
DF: But for the thousands and thousands all across the world that were looking into it maybe wanting to do it. This is going to be a good alternative. Obviously it won’t replace the experience of being at a real in-person event, but it will be better than reading an e-book or watching a recorded video. It will land somewhere in the middle there.
PC: You said it’s Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday?
DF: Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday for three straight weeks. There’s going to be two evening sessions each night so you can join live and interact with the speakers and the other people that are, you know, at this virtual conference. And then everything will be recorded in audio and video form, transcripts will be made from each session, and then those will be made available on-demand after the event.
PC: And it’s only 100 bucks?
DF: Only 100 bucks.
PC: American dollars?
DF: Last time I checked.
PC: You’re working cheap.
DF: If it was in pounds it would be a little more money in my pocket from what I understand, but right now it’s American dollars.
PC: Alright, so I’ve wasted more money on that on a silly plug-in. That’s affordable. Anybody ought to be able to do that.
DF: And that’s kind of the point. I mean, we’re cognizant of the fact that there’s not as much overhead obviously for an online conference as an in-person conference. And we want it to be accessible and something that people will be able to participate in.
DF: So that’s the idea.
PC: Excellent. And where can people find a little info about this so they can sign up?
DF: Yeah, read a little bit more at www.podcastersummit.com and it will be fun. We’ve got some, like I said, some very recognizable names speaking. And then we’ve got some new up-and-comers and we have the schedule up there, we have the list of speakers, we have the topics that are discussed. I think it’s going to be really good.
PC: Excellent. So by the time people hear this, the registration platform will be working.
DF: Yeah, it already is. It’s already is.
PC: Or is it. Okay, excellent. Excellent.
KM: Of course it is! You’re talking to Dan Franks.
PC: Very good. Very good. Well you, Miss Kathleen, happen to be a counselor, an LPC with a CEAP and an FBI and an IOU.
DF: It’s like an alphabet soup sitting next to me here.
KM: I know, right? I’m telling you. Keep it quiet until he, you know, says
PC: Nice broth. Hints of chicken noodle soup.
KM: Chicken noodle soup, there you go.
PC: So. And Dan Franks, you happen to be a CPA by daytime profession and before we got started you all were having an interesting little discussion about HIPAA dippa do and things that are happening these days, so let’s go back and re-tread some of that.
KM: Re-tread that.
PC: Well, you were talking about HIPAA, Kathleen, the HIPAA regulations–
KM: Omnibus rule and the digital technology ethics securing information, private health care information. Dan and I, I think were having a conversation about launching successful businesses and Dan, in my mind, is one of those people whose not afraid to do a lot of risk and development and cultivate new things that everybody just loves. And I think mental health professionals don’t have a really great business piece once they get out of school, and so we’re doing a symposium in January on the basic stuff and Dan’s going to be one of the speakers about that, but I was talking to Dan about, you know, the digital ethics is now over our heads at this point in all the medical field and Dan knows some– you know, you’re working with some doctors that are feeling this private health care information, HIPAA compliance beast.
DF: Yeah, on the CPA side of things – my day job that Phillip mentioned – I do work with a lot of people in the medical field. Probably 90% of my work are doctors, dentists, things like that. And a lot of them are starting their own practices, or joining practices as independent contractors so they’re having to go through a lot of these same things. They don’t have that umbrella of safety that being an employee somewhere, you know, just getting a W2 and not having to worry about all these things. And I was talking about just one client of mine: Only been in operation four or five years but is having to go through and completely replace all the technology in their office, add all these extra measures for those new HIPAA– to be compliant with HIPAA now, and it’s just crazy all these things that are happening. And it seems excessive, and you maybe have more experience than I do in terms of if it’s actually doing anything legitimate. I mean, I’m sure there’s something to it, but I don’t know if it’s even necessary, but it just seems like wow, you know, here’s $10,000 worth of equipment that’s going to actually cost him $25,000 to put in because of all the extra procedures and steps to put in to meet these new guidelines.
KM: Right. It’s just a multi-faceted layer of protection within the business per se, but also it seems like we also have to control the outside entities that are going to get this private health care information and we’re responsible for it. For instance, if there’s a breach of information from wherever and it can be reassigned back to this particular patient was a patient of mine, I got some seriously penalties or fines coming my way if the Department of Civil Rights or the Department of Justice feels like it originated from my office, whether it originated from my office or not. So that’s the concern for me is having all this technology and backup systems and compliant computers and phone systems and smart phones and all that kind of stuff. I can only protect it so much. Once it leaves my office, I’m still liable.
DF: Yeah, the second or third in command actually does something with the information that you provided the first line of command, yet you’re responsible. I mean, it seems unfair but I guess in reality that’s what we’re dealing with so we don’t really have choices.
PC: Can you give me an example of – no names, obviously, but – the equipment that is being replaces in that example. Specifically, why is he having to replace some of that? Why is it not good enough?
DF: You know, I think Kathleen mentioned earlier, like if you have a computer with an old operating system and maybe some of these new layers of protection that must be built into the computer, whether it’s software layers or hardware layers, I’m not sure of the specific technology, but they don’t function on Windows XP for instance, which could only be a five-year-old system that everything’s functioning properly for the practice itself but it’s not able to handle that new equipment or that new software so you’re having to replace everything. And maybe the $1,000 computer would work fine as a replacement for in your office, but it’s going to take the $2,000 computer to run all these things and then another few thousand dollars to actually put all that new equipment, or that new software on throughout the office. So it seems like it’s just compounding expenses on top of what’s actually necessary.
KM: Well, it goes even to– yeah. Exactly. Like, we’ve got a computer in my office that there’s an air gap, meaning it’s not connected to the internet. Which means that basically I’m controlling all of that information on that computer but because the operating system is XP, it is non-compliant with the HIPAA rules. The fact that I’ve got an air gap, I don’t use it online, helps me somewhat but I still have to replace it. (Laughs)
PC: So where do I find out–
KM: And our phone system– we’ve got a big hard drive on our phone system, right? So all that, you know, all the, you know, gets stolen or something like that I’ve got to have a plan for–
PC: Where do I find out these guidelines that you’re talking about?
KM: You can find it online through HIPAA and all that, the Omnibus rule. But working with a good digital ethics company. I’m working with Security Metrics at this point. We did an interview with Todd last week, so they’re helping me do my risk analysis and then I’ll do the risk management and then I have to implement it in my little HIPAA workbook and business entities and all that.
DF: And I think that also speaks on a little bit of that increased price. You know, the $10,000 system that costs $25,000 is all that extra, you know, examining and the people that specialize in that so you’re paying them more than you would pay the Geek Squad to come give you a new computer system. You’re paying them more because that’s their specialty. But you have to meet these guidelines and the Geek Squad doesn’t know what those are and they don’t know how to look at the air gaps or anything like that so.
KM: Right, right, right. So yeah, we’re just– every piece of technology in your office and on your person, if you will, like my smart phone. Every detail about every technology I use–
DF: So the ankle monitor, too. That counts.
KM: (Laughs) There you go. So yeah it’s daunting.
PC: You had to report the ankle monitor?
KM: I did.
PC: Gee. This is getting a little invasive.
KM: Tracking device, you know, all that.
PC: We’ve got a couple of air gaps around this office, too, but they’re taking medication so we’ll see how that works out. Anyway, okay so I’m a counselor. I’m a young counselor, young dentist, young… lawyer, young health care professionals, not lawyers. Heck, I’ve only been out of college a couple years. I’m still using the laptop I had in college and I just found out it’s going to cost me $15-$18,000 to replace all this equipment–?
KM: Well the penalty for you not is going to cost minimum $1,500.
PC: Well, okay.
DF: Who’s this responsibility on? Because I don’t know. Is it on the employer, or the person that you’re working under to tell you this? Or is it the responsibility of the person themselves to just know. You know, this young doctor – if no one has told him that his laptop’s outdated, is he responsible?
KM: Yes. Every health care provider – whether it’s self-pay or if you take insurance, it doesn’t matter. If you use any technology at all– no, that’s not even right because Todd said that’s not even a caveat. But if you’re a health care provider, you are responsible. Period. So if you work in a group practice and either you’re renting space or it’s a corporation– everybody, everybody – support staff, transcriptionists, you have to report them. How are they taking the information? What devices do they have? Outside vendors you have to get their stuff on the books, too.
DF: So if you have the drug reps coming into the office, is that– are they?
KM: You probably need to have them sign a business associate agreement.
KM: Covered entity. Like, I’m going to have to, yeah– I’ve got a list of people that I just have to re-do, re-up the signing. Like if my technology guy comes in, they have to sign a covered entity business associate agreement. For instance, if you’re my CPA and you come into my office, and you see– I mean, you could see some client refund checks. I mean, if you’re an accountant and stuff like that, I have to put you down and you have to sign a business entity saying that you’re–
DF: Yep. I’ve had to do that before.
KM: Mmm hmm. You know what I’m talking about. So you have to be quiet about what you see and all that kind of stuff.
PC: Well, back to my question here now. I just found out $15,000 I’ve got to spend on computers and I don’t care about a $1,500 penalty because I don’t have the $15,000 anyway. What do I do now?
DF: Well, I don’t think the penalty itself is what you need to worry about. It’s when the attorneys or somebody like that, you know, gets brought onto you then it’s everything that surrounds it. It’s not the penalty from the governing body that you’re worried about. It’s getting sued and then not having followed procedures. That’s what caused that $1,500 penalty, but it might be what causes $150,000 lawsuit.
KM: Right. You have to demonstrate that you are working on the risk management and you are being due diligent about battening down the hatch, if you will, and complaints can happen at any time and, in my case – and I’m thinking doctors, too, but – you know, mental health we now have two sets of complaint boards to worry about. Your licensing board complaint and now you have another entity because of the Omnibus rule and the HIPAA layer of technology. You’ve got another complaint layer system coming from people who are going to be making complaints through the Civil Rights Department about somebody like I have breached patient information and the Civil Rights Department gave me a little call and I have to answer their questions whether I want to or not. And I’ve been through that and it’s pretty remarkable, actually.
PC: But you still haven’t answered my question. I don’t have $15,000. What’s going to happen to me? Am I out of business here?
KM: Well, you have to be. I mean, you have to be compliant. I mean, (laughs) HIPAA hasn’t taken that into consideration clearly.
PC: I understand–
DF: Cost of doing business.
KM: It’s the cost of doing business.
PC: It’s a new cost of doing business.
KM: Well, it is an extra, absolutely.
DF: But if you’re not– you know, you have to be able to pay rent on a monthly basis or else you have to shut down. Same thing. Now it’s just an additional cost, so.
KM: Right. It’s just an extra monthly–
PC: Well then I’ll just raise my rates.
KM: You can.
DF: That’s probably what will happen.
KM: That will probably what will happen. However, you know, then we’re going– are we really going to go there?
KM: Okay, we’re going to go there.
PC: I’m going to raise my rates. Problem solved, right?
KM: Well, it is contingent on are you self-pay? If you’re self-pay, you go right ahead. But you need to factor in what your clients’ monthly insurance premiums are going to be, which is a 78% hike next year in premiums. Their deductibles are now going to be $6,000 to $10,000. We’re already seeing it. So the cash for, let’s say–
PC: Available cash.
KM: –for my client who’s self-pay, it’s not there anymore. So, yes, you can be self-pay but you still have to be HIPAA compliant and you still have to pay the extra layer of the cost of doing business and hopefully your client will just–
PC: But okay. I understand I have to be compliant. I get that. But I’m going to raise my rates to take care of it and I think you’re telling me that I can raise my rates but I’m not going to get it?
DF: Or less people will come in.
KM: Less people will come in if you’re self-pay. Go ahead, Dan.
DF: I mean, I think to answer your original question, if I were in that position I would then go be– if I can’t afford to run my business with the current cost of doing business, you go become an employee of somebody else that is able to continue paying that cost of doing business. So I mean, we see that all the time in my field where we have people trying to decide, “Should I go work as an employee for someone, or should I start my own thing, or at the very least become an independent contractor under someone else’s umbrella?” And that’s one of the biggest things to look at. As an employee of someone, it’s their responsibility to pay for all these new expenses and to make sure they stay compliant versus if I’m doing my own thing it’s my responsibility and if any new things come down the pipeline that increase operating costs even more, then that’s going to be on me. And I have to then make the same decision every time a new thing like this comes up.
PC: It really becomes an issue of scale, you know? There’s strength in numbers.
KM: Well I think we’ve talked about this; the dying breed is sole practitioner. You know, if you look at the medical model – and now dentists are starting to get into this, too – is the medical model is everybody’s in a large group and there’s power in that large group because the cost is shared. And so private practitioners can’t really do that as much as they could maybe five years ago even. So the mental health professional, you have to– I agree with Dan– you have to decide, “Can I do this on my own, and if so what do I have to charge in order to keep my doors open and compliant?”
DF: And to do things right.
PC: But that’s not fair.
KM: The law of the land is the law of the land, and until there’s a full repeal we’ve got to comply.
PC: Okay, so why don’t we – that’s the mental health care professionals, the dentists, the doctors, the hospital administrative people–
KM: Hospitals, everybody. All health care.
PC: All health care. Why don’t we get together and have lunch and call somebody? Can we do that? What do we do? Because this is not good. I don’t think this is good.
PC: Some may think it’s wonderful, but if you’re running your own business, you’re being run out of business because of the regulations.
KM: You’re looking at me like you want me to say what I’m thinking.
PC: I need the magic answer and I want you to say what you’re thinking.
KM: The magic answer is call your congressman and tell them what your thoughts are about what you’re experiencing and what you want congress house of representatives to do in the next year.
PC: You mean in the republican congress?
PC: Yes. Right. Alright.
DF: That’s a fun topic, Phillip. Thanks a lot.
PC: Yes. Get me started.
KM: Dan’s not going anywhere with that, but I will. I think that, you know, this is going to really hit a lot of providers between the eyes, you know, that aren’t ready for it. And it really worries me.
PC: So the providers, whether they’re, you know, mental health counselors or dentists or doctors or whatever – when’s the deadline? When are they going to all get the letter that says, “You screwed up and you didn’t do what we needed to. Here’s the penalty.”
KM: Well, there’s no real letter per se.
PC: When’s the deadline?
KM: The deadline? Well, well, the Omnibus rule has passed and went into effect September of 2013.
PC: What the heck is an Omnibus?
KM: Well, it’s the digital ethics layer of HIPAA, basically. Said you got to batten down the hatches on all your technology and keep your private patient health care information totally private. With the technology today, it makes it a little difficult because a lot of people are doing electronic record billing, or electronic medical records and it’s not even in their office. It’s somewhere in the sky somewhere. And you still have to have a risk management plan for the sky stuff.
PC: I understand that. I want to know the deadline and who’s going to tell me that I messed up and when.
KM: Well, the Civil Rights Department is going to give you a little call and that’s when you’re going to know you’re probably in big trouble.
PC: What triggers that phone call?
KM: Well, someone makes a complaint. And you can do it online. It’s very easy to do.
PC: So I could really just ignore this and skate by for a couple years and hope nobody complains.
KM: You can take the risk.
PC: You tell me that if nobody complains then–
KM: Uh, well you’re skating under the radar but–
PC: I’m not suggesting it, I’m just saying–
KM: No. Yeah. Right.
DF: There’s nobody scheduled to come into your office–
KM: Not that I know of.
DF: –on January 1, 2015 or whatever.
KM: The HIPAA police aren’t going to walk into my office– well, I guess they could. But I need to show them my due diligence of what have you been doing to secure your private health care information. That’s what I’m working on now with, you know, my security guys.
PC: How did you know to start to do that?
KM: Well, that’s a great question actually–
PC: Besides the fact you’re one of those odd people that actually reads these laws as they get passed, but that aside–
KM: I’m the grim reaper, right?
PC: –how did you know that you had to do the Omnibus thing?
KM: Well, I got a little call from my credit card terminal company saying, “Hey,” you know because you have to go through every year with our VISA and MasterCard terminal it registers as oh it’s a health care provider. This is a health care provider, you know. And so I get a little call from my terminal going, you know, “Submit the, you know, $150 bucks for the yearly compliance of the terminal” because that has to be battened down. We can’t keep anything on file and I have to answer a four-page–
KM: So then the Security Metrics triggers, it gets triggered. I mean, the credit card company, “Hey, this is a health care company and you probably want to call Life Tree Counseling Center up and see where they are with the Omnibus rule.” So I got a call from the Security Metrics people saying, “Hey. Hi.”
PC: How are the Security Metrics people and the credit card people connected?
KM: Well, they do also compliance with the credit card terminals, too. They’re working on, you know, keeping things confidential on the terminal side.
PC: So something is going to trigger a phone call.
KM: It did for me. It did for me.
PC: If you got a credit card acceptance policy.
KM: If you have a MasterCard/VISA terminal, you probably will get a phone call.
PC: When you renew.
KM: When you renew.
PC: At least that triggers it.
KM: It did for me. Now most mental health– no, I can’t say most. A lot of mental health professionals do the little Square or something similar.
DF: That can’t get compliant, right?
KM: Square is taking the HIPAA compliance for the Square user. The other knock offs of Square are not. Most mental health professionals–
DF: That’s very important, right?
KM: It’s very important.
DF: Because there are alternatives that people are using.
KM: That’s right. And they think, well they’re handling it. Well, they aren’t and so you know, I don’t know.
PC: Well, even if you’re using Square to process your cards, they’re assuming the HIPAA problem for you, as you said, that just means for the Square but not for everything else in your office.
KM: No. Correct.
PC: So it’s just not going to trigger a phone call, what it amounts to.
KM: From the Square people, mostly maybe not. If I’m a VISA/MasterCard terminal person, which I am, we are, it did for me and I’m sure it’s going to do it for others, too. You know, everybody’s just scrambling. I mean, everybody’s just–
PC: Something’s going to get you.
DF: I mean it’s no different that, like, what I experience with changes in tax laws. It’s your– the onus is on you to keep up with these laws and if you’re not then you can’t– no one else is responsible for filling you in.
KM: So how do you find out about the new tax laws? That’s a great point.
DF: We have newsletters, which is the easiest thing. These companies out there, Kiplinger’s is the one we use, and they send out a bi-weekly newsletter that goes over proposed tax laws, changes in tax laws, things coming down the pipeline. And I think in any industry where you’re a professional or you have these new laws and these new procedures to abide by, there’s got to be– you have to have some resource for that. I mean, you could be reading the tax code, which no one wants to do.
PC: Yeah. That’s exactly why I decided not to become a CPA. I saw those newsletters. They ain’t no pictures.
KM: Well, that’s why I hire a CPA because they are all on the up part and I really appreciate that. So I guess the point is, you’ve got to know where to go and who’s going to give you the information and hopefully this podcast is giving people information to like, you know, hey FYI.
DF: I’m sure, nowadays, there’s blogs talking about all these things. So you almost have to be looking not to find out about these new laws.
PC: Yeah. Be proactive. Go find it. It is what it is until we all get together for lunch.
KM: I think the more proactive you are in this particular area, the better off you may be. You know, this is a new land now.
PC: Well, that’s interesting stuff, and I’d love to continue but we’re out of time and I’ve got to go buy another bottle of turkey.
PC: And I’m not even in the mental health profession. I don’t care it’s only 9:30 in the morning. I’m going, okay?
KM: Alright, Phillip.
PC: So, tell us where we can find you, Mr. Franks.
DF: You can find more about me at www.danfranks.me - that’s my personal website. And you can find my last show with you guys up there as well, some of the other things I’ve done, and then the Business Podcaster Summit is at www.podcastersummit.com.
KM: I’m excited for that actually, Dan.
DF: I think it’s going to be good, and like I said, it’s for people looking to further their business or their personal platform through podcasting so that’s pretty wide, a wide spread of people so we really are trying to help anyone interested in using their podcast for a little more–
KM: And you’re going to be speaking at our symposium, aren’t you?
DF: I am. I’m very excited about that.
KM: I’m excited about that, too.
PC: So tell me about when the symposium is.
KM: January 30th, Crown Plaza, Addison, Texas. And you can go to our website, www.lifetreecounseling.com, go to the events tab, and you can read all about it. Isn’t that right, Phillip?
PC: As soon as I put it up there, yes. That’s right.
KM: We should probably put up all of our speakers, too. And it’s very nominal. It’s cheaper than a visit from the Civil Rights Department.
PC: And it’s more fun than a root canal. So any last thoughts?
DF: No, just thanks for letting me–
PC: I saw a couple of brain cells connecting there.
DF: No. No, just thanks for letting me sneak in here again today. I had a great time.
KM: Yes. Always.
PC: You betcha. You betcha. Next time I’ll unlock the front door and you can come in that way, okay?
DF: I feel like a civilian again.
PC: I’m still Phillip Crum, www.contentmarketingcoach.us if you’re so inclined to promote your business this way. If you’re not, just bored and lonely, give me a call anyway. I’m free. Alright? We appreciate you listening. We’ll see you next week. Thank you, Dan.
KM: Thank you very much, Dan.
DF: Thanks, guys.
PC: Bye bye, Kathleen.
KM: Goodbye, Phillip.
PC: And on we go.
Outro: Thanks for listening. If you found something of value in this show, please tell your colleagues about us. If you have a topic you’d like us to address, or know a subject matter authority that we might like to talk with, simply drop us a note to [email protected] and we’ll take it from there. Thanks again for sitting in with us, and we’ll see you next week.